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Bitcoin and Financial Freedom: A Love Story 

My conversation with Robin Seyr took an interesting leap into education and Bitcoin.

He shared his transition from skeptic to believer and how a friend’s nudge led him to dive into the Bitcoin community. It’s a reminder that sometimes, the most profound shifts in our lives come from an invitation to explore what we don’t understand.

Welcoming a Fellow Podcaster: The Journey Begins

Hello, dear readers! I’m Dani, the voice behind the Heartbit podcast, where we explore the pulsating world of Bitcoin and the stories of those who navigate it. Today, I’m thrilled to share with you a conversation that resonated with me deeply, one that I had with Robin Seyr, a fellow Bitcoin podcast host who has carved out a niche for himself in this electrifying space.

The Art of Podcasting and Embracing New Voices

Robin’s daily podcast show is a testament to his dedication to the Bitcoin community. His approach to interviewing is as diverse as the guests he welcomes—ranging from prominent figures to newcomers in the podcasting realm. Robin and I share a common goal: to demystify Bitcoin and make it more accessible. I’m particularly drawn to interviewing those who are new to Bitcoin, as it sheds light on the challenges and apprehensions people face when approaching this digital currency.

Personal Stories: The Heart of Connection

During our chat, Robin emphasized the power of personal narratives in forging a stronger bond with listeners. He believes that by sharing our own experiences, we can make Bitcoin more relatable and foster a sense of community. This resonates with me, although I admit I sometimes struggle with how much of my personal life to share, wary of creating envy or FOMO among my audience. Robin’s advice on finding a balance and setting boundaries was a valuable takeaway for me.

Societal Acceptance and Positive Influence

We also touched on the growing normalization of Bitcoin conversations in social settings. Robin shared his experience of introducing Bitcoin to his family and how their perceptions have evolved. He stressed the importance of leading by example and being a positive influence in our communities to encourage openness towards Bitcoin.

Engaging with the Audience: Managing Social Media

The digital age has made audience engagement a crucial aspect of content creation. Robin shared his strategies for managing comments on his podcast videos and his passion for podcasting as a long-term commitment. This part of our discussion was particularly insightful for me as I navigate the complexities of social media interaction.

Legacy and In-Person Connections

Robin’s passion for content creation extends beyond the digital realm. He cherishes the opportunity to meet fellow Bitcoin enthusiasts at conferences and meetups, valuing the personal connections that come from such interactions. His experiences with Bitcoin notables like Michael Saylor and Saifedean Ammous have enriched his understanding of Bitcoin’s evolution.

Diverse Perspectives and Education

Our conversation took an interesting turn when we discussed the willingness to engage with differing opinions within the Bitcoin community. Robin’s cautious approach to interviewing critics or altcoin advocates reflects his commitment to Bitcoin’s integrity. He also shared his approach to breaking down complex concepts, ensuring his content is inclusive and understandable for all.

Financial Planning and Bitcoin: A Personal Journey

Robin’s journey into financial responsibility began early, transitioning from saving pocket money to investing in stocks and eventually Bitcoin. He highlighted the importance of self-custody and the need to educate others on this critical aspect of Bitcoin ownership. Our discussion on financial freedom and the potential of Bitcoin over traditional assets like real estate was particularly enlightening.

Defining Financial Freedom

Financial freedom, as Robin sees it, is about having enough financial energy to sustain oneself without working. He values his net worth in terms of time, considering how many years he could live off his assets. We both agreed that financial freedom is subjective and that having the liberty to pursue passions and contribute to society is paramount.

The Podcast Experience: Learning and Growth

Reflecting on our podcasting journeys, we shared the joy and learning that comes from engaging with a variety of topics and guests. Robin’s wish list of guests and his gratitude for his audience’s support were heartwarming to hear. We both recognize the Bitcoin community’s appreciation for hard work and the importance of delivering valuable content.

Unasked Questions and the Universality of English

Robin’s love for fundamental questions like “What is freedom?” and the daily habits that guests cherish sparked an interesting discussion. His choice to conduct his podcast in English, despite being German, underscores his desire to reach a global audience and the potential of AI translation to bridge language barriers.

The Potential of Bitcoin and the Significance of Stacking Sats

We delved into the reasons for choosing Bitcoin, with Robin highlighting its status as a high-performing asset and a technology that grants freedom. The conversation concluded with thoughts on the inevitability of Bitcoin’s value increase over time.

A Heartfelt Conclusion

As our conversation wrapped up, Robin expressed his gratitude for being a part of the Heartbeat podcast, and I reciprocated with equal enthusiasm for the insights he shared. We both look forward to the possibility of meeting in person at a future conference, and I’m excited about the prospect of appearing on Robin’s podcast.

This blog post is just a glimpse into the rich dialogue we shared. I hope it has provided you with valuable insights into the world of Bitcoin podcasting and the power of personal storytelling. Thank you for joining me on this journey, and until next time, keep listening to the heartbeat of innovation and connection.

Watch the podcast at the video linked above.

Full Transcript:

Dani (00:00:14) – Welcome to the Heartbit podcast, where we delve into the heart of Bitcoin and uncover the sweet spot for enthusiasts worldwide. I’m Danny, your fellow Bitcoin explorer, and today we will be joined by Robin Sayer, a Bitcoin podcast host who has been in the scene for quite a while now. He’s had the opportunity to interview a lot of people, and today we’re going to talk with him a little bit about his journey. How are you?

Robin (00:00:41) – Hi, Danny. I’m, I’m really, really good. it’s it’s it’s amazing to be on the other side. Like, I have a daily bitcoin podcast show, as you mentioned, and I usually interview every day tomorrow. I have a weird schedule of three podcasts in a row with like half an hour in between. So this will be a challenging, challenging for me. but usually like, I’m doing everyday podcast interview and I have people on from like, Jeff Booth, Natalie Brunelle, even Gary Jordan recently the, the, the bigger guys on, on social media, but also the everyday kind of a guy.

Robin (00:01:16) – Like just like if someone replies to my tweet and I’m like, oh, that’s an interesting reply. I just I don’t do a lot of checking. I’m like DMing him like, hey, do you want to be on my show? And let’s record. And these are usually the episodes that, that I love the most, because I get to know someone new, that I get to know someone that is not the not not on every podcast. Because like a Jeff Booth, that the on every podcast. And I heard them like 20 or 30 times seeing the Bitcoin stuff. And so I love to have the new guys, the someone that was never on a podcast, I had a think I made now 106 episodes and I think 10 or 15 of of those were the first time ever on a podcast with me. So this is really, really cool to have have completely new faces in the Bitcoin community, to have to spread the world a little bit further.

Dani (00:02:13) – That’s really interesting. You mentioned that because, over the weekend, I was thinking that I was interested in interviewing people who maybe don’t know that much about Bitcoin.

Dani (00:02:24) – Bitcoin like the actual users, to get a better sense of where people get lost, where people get apprehension and kind of like to basically orange peel people on camera.

Robin (00:02:36) – And you have to get them as. And when you explain Bitcoin, like if you get bitcoin explained by someone, you want someone that is relatable to you. and this is where we have to get really diverse with our, with our guests. if we, if we have someone sitting in India, someone that is Indian and explains him Bitcoin is way better and maybe way more relatable as some American guy. So like I’m trying to just have the widest range of, of, of, of people on my bitcoin show. That is possible. I cannot do more than one a day. like one a day is my, my upper limit. it’s maybe, maybe too much, but, I’m trying to keep up with the schedule that I set myself. but it’s a really, really cool thing to do. Yeah. And we we need more people in the Bitcoin, scene.

Robin (00:03:35) – Like, we are so, so small and so early. everyone that starts a podcast, everyone that starts speaking about it, everyone every voice is so important. That speaks up.

Dani (00:03:46) – Earlier you said 106 episodes, but this morning I was looking at your YouTube again and it said exactly 100 episodes. I was wondering if maybe some have not become available, but because of that, I was, thinking of celebrating this as like your 100 episode retrospect since, like, kind of coincided and with, like, you’re being interviewed.

Robin (00:04:10) – Yeah, there’s two aspects to it. First of all, like, I pre-record stuff, so like, I have episodes that are not have been uploaded till now, but there is also the aspect where I already deleted two episodes, which is not because of me, it’s just because they said, oh, they don’t want it anymore. someone said it, right after I released it, and then I just took it off, because he said he’s involved in investment stuff and an investment series, and he does not want to have anything that gets in the way of getting an investment right now.

Robin (00:04:49) – I don’t like if someone says, like, delete my episodes. I’m deleting, of course, like, I don’t I don’t care, like the the the my shows are for the guest. and someone, also wanted to delete it because he wants to be more private. and I respect that decision. And, it’s it’s totally fine. I mean, the later one was on for, like, a few months, so, I looked at the statistics. This episode did not get any views in the last week anyway, so. But, still, like, I respect this, so there could be a difference there. but the bigger difference is because of how we, record and, rerecord everything, and then release it, like a week later, two weeks later, a few days later, depending on on how far I’m ahead in the schedule. And yeah, I, I released my 100th episode, I think, on Saturday. so today was my 102nd release or 101st release, something like that.

Robin (00:05:48) – So we can definitely make a 100 episode retrospect, because we are right around the 100 episodes right now.

Dani (00:05:54) – Yeah, I think it’s still a great opportunity to celebrate the 100 episodes and like the trajectory in the path, like the things you have learned and what you’ve discovered on the way. So I have a couple questions related to that. The first question I had is who has taught you the the most in these 100 episodes? Who taught you the most?

Robin (00:06:15) – Oh. wow. That’s, that’s really hard to pinpoint. you can pick the there there are, a lot of different, that that lend me a lot. I think Jeff Booth was the most influential on my life, honestly, because, I interviewed him in a very interesting point in my life where I just was in the in the transition, to being from part time working in, in, sales for an IT company and doing part time the podcast to going full time to podcast and doing only this, and, he said, like, I, I did not speak with him about that, but he just said in the end of the podcast, even like live while we were recording, he said that, you benefit massively if you spend all your time right now in Bitcoin, not only your financial energy, but also your time in Bitcoin.

Robin (00:07:20) – and he explained it for himself that he even though he was invested in Bitcoin, he spent all this time with this fear system money and stuff like that. The fear in the field system where he was involved and he one time stood up and was like, I’m, I’m like benefiting the fiat system. He is speaking about Bitcoin. He had this book already out, but he was not really outspoken. not really spending his time in Bitcoin. And then he decided to do the, the what is it called, ego death capital. and spending his time really on, bitcoin. and this kind of, was one of the major reasons why I also, like, took the step, like, there are a lot of reasons why I took this step. And I wanted to take the step and take the step this year. I had it planned way later, like I wanted to do it like September, October at this range, but I ended up doing it already in February, which was a surprise to me because things were just happening way faster than than I expected.

Robin (00:08:28) – This is also part to 21 Bitcoin believing in me and sponsoring me really early on. making it happen for me, the transition. So I think, this was I think I did not learn much the most from Jeff Booth, but, from Jeff Booth, the had the most influence on my life. Maybe, the most learnings, I think I this is this is really hard to pinpoint is a really good question. I didn’t I thought about it and actually, I’m, I’m planning on doing, a book on, on my podcast episodes because I’m interviewing so many people, a book that is like what Bitcoin taught me, where I also, have the learnings from my guests in, so if I started with the book, I probably had a better answer already. But this is this is an interesting, thought about. Yeah.

Dani (00:09:23) – Yeah. I have a question that is similar, but I was curious if you would say the same person or not, because the other question I had is who surprised you the most, or who or what surprised you the most? Who gave you the piece of information that was like.

Dani (00:09:39) – The most that most unexpected, or who came on your show and was the most unexpected.

Robin (00:09:47) – Those are definitely. This is definitely not Jeff Booth because I knew him before. Quite good. And and, this is what I was talking a little bit earlier because the, the bigger guys, you already know what they are saying. Like, when you ask a question, you kind of know where he’s going, like what he’s saying and stuff like this because he’s he’s on so many podcasts. but one that was really fascinating for me, was Luke, that I interviewed recently as a basketball, player, professional one and, he was just really good in, speaking about Bitcoin and about his passion. And it was his first podcast. It was fascinating for me because if you interview people that are the first time on a podcast, it’s always a little bit, like a, like a gamble because they could be really nervous. They could be really. yeah. It’s the first time. Maybe they’re not, not as good in articulating, things, as there might be, like a Michael Saylor, Jeff Booth and stuff like that.

Robin (00:10:55) – so it’s a little bit of a gamble. So the host like me has to do more work on making them comfortable. if someone is completely new, I usually spend more time before the podcast, like ten, 15, sometimes in 20 minutes speaking with them, and then just starting the recording and keeping it really friendly, with Jeff Booth was like, yeah, he’s in press record. Let’s go.

Dani (00:11:19) – For.

Robin (00:11:20) – Like.

Dani (00:11:21) – The definitely taking notes from your techniques.

Robin (00:11:26) – Yes. I think, a host, has the job of, of getting the best out of the guest. Like, this is, like getting, like, it’s not, it’s it’s easy to get the best out of, like, a really good speaker because he’s prepared, like, he did it so many times. He know what he’s doing. he he already said the things he want to say like, 50 times before. He, he says he’s on the podcast or maybe like, hundreds of times, and someone that is new, like, I had one guy on, that I will not say his name, but, he was on and we took two, two sets, like, we we took the podcast, like 30 hours, 30 minutes, half an hour.

Robin (00:12:09) – And then we said, okay, let’s delete it. let’s do the same thing just over again. And then we did, 45 minutes. And it was actually a really good performing podcast because he had extremely good things to say. And I was loving his opinion. and, it was it was amazing to see when, when people are coming over this, this hurdle of, oh, I can actually freely speak, I can that that’s what the that’s what in my, what is in my mind, I can actually pronounce and put it into the world. And it is something that resonates with people and every episode is resonating with other people. Like sometimes I think like, oh, this episode is not as interesting. And then it performs really good because I’m just one person. Maybe the the, the episode or the guest was not as interesting for me personally, but it could be really interesting for someone listening. so I don’t try to judge my, my, my own episodes on my own guests. And I just try to, do like one hour of of pre, preparation before the guest comes on.

Robin (00:13:18) – So I’m prepared, what his life is all about, what he’s doing, obviously with, people that are more on the internet, it’s easier because you find stuff. If someone is not active, then it’s really hard to find stuff. And he only had 200 followers and he is not doing a lot. But even those I have on and those are the, the most cool, the most amazing episodes usually as as with Luke, it’s not released now, but probably when this is released, it will be released. so it was really, really cool to just like, talk with, with random people. and, and. Yeah, get the, get the interesting the new point of views of of bitcoin out.

Dani (00:14:01) – Yeah, because I do feel like there’s been a shift in society because before, like, it would maybe be uncomfortable to talk about Bitcoin in certain social environments. Or if you brought it up, they make all those memes about bringing it up at the family table and all that stuff. But like, now I feel it’s like, even in my own social environment.

Dani (00:14:23) – I’m okay talking about Bitcoin, talking about working in Bitcoin because everything has become more like formal and it’s becoming normalized every day.

Robin (00:14:31) – More we’re growing up. This is this is the thing that we we I see more and more in the Bitcoin world. We are actually growing up. And the Bitcoin community is now ready to be in all the get togethers, in all the restaurant discussions and all the bar discussions, like everybody knows, Bitcoin and those fads that we usually have to deal with. They are getting smaller, like the the environment. That is, at least in my Austrian environment, is still big, but it gets smaller and people are like, oh yes, it uses a lot of energy, but people are like kind of, yeah, we have to deal with it. but it’s like they don’t understand why Bitcoin is useful. So they still have those, those fads in their in their head. But it gets better. Like it gets way better. And also when I see it in the family when I first adopted it in four four years ago I was the only one in in Bitcoin.

Robin (00:15:26) – I was the only weird one in Bitcoin. And it was for the family. Totally okay. And the newer because I was only the also the only one that was investing in stocks that were unusual. and I always put like big bets on stocks. I had a lot of, money, like, a lot of my money. Not a lot of money, but a lot of, like a high percentage of my money in Tesla stock. before I had it in Bitcoin, so that they were like, Robin is like having really high risk stocks and really high risk bets, which I always disagreed with. but with Tesla, the kind, were. Right. I mean, I made a huge amount of money because I was lucky, honestly, because I did not really understand the stock market, back then. but this pushed me to bitcoin, and, yeah. So like, my, my environment reacted really good to bitcoin. Like nobody like was like yeah bitcoin. but this is also like this is a point where I’m also, I’m always really healthy.

Robin (00:16:36) – I’m trying to, to look out for myself. and so I’m, I’m looked up to in my family sometimes, and this is where I’m really passionate about like, when you are, in, in your life, really good. Like, you are kind and nice to everyone, and you’re happy with your life and you’re doing good. This is the best orange building you can do. People, driving towards you, like, if you were just doing really good in life, you’re happy. You’re giving to society. You are kind, nice person. And then you are also the Bitcoin. then they are not as are this bitcoin thing. And they are kind of lowering their barriers and they’re more open to the idea of it. And that’s why I’m like when someone asked me what’s the best orange building strategy. Be really good in life. Be kind, be the be the town hero. the village hero.

Speaker 3 (00:17:31) – like.

Robin (00:17:32) – Whatever you’re doing, try to give back to people, live healthy, work out, look like you’re healthy, happy human being and be a healthy, happy human being.

Robin (00:17:46) – and I’m trying my best to be, that person. not always perfect, but I’m trying to do it. and I think people notice that, like, people realize that. Oh, he’s he’s actually genuinely happy or not, like, if people are happy, they noticed that. And that’s the best orange building. Because when then Bitcoin comes up in their head and they are curious about it, they are taking your advice seriously. If you are, not good in your life, you’re like in another good place on on in your life. They’re not as open or welcoming your, your, opinion, even though their opinion is as valid from as from any other person.

Dani (00:18:30) – No. I hear what you’re saying because I was basically debating with the same idea recently, which is that, you know, the best way to, like, I’m a very private person, so it’s difficult for me to like to create. This show was a big, like, personal obstacle for me to, like, commit to being in the public eye.

Dani (00:18:52) – And with that also comes like the the the more I would like like the more I share. My lifestyle with the community, the more clear like I could be sharing those concepts. But it’s a huge struggle for me. Like, how much do you reveal of yourself and how much do you keep private? But at the same time, like if you reveal because there’s also that whole thing, because in social media, like there’s so much like sharing and envy. I don’t like how like to create FOMO in other people. That causes me, unrest. But what you’re talking about is so much more elegant because it’s it’s like the same ideas that I was debating. But it’s not about the jealousy and the envy. It’s about like you are. You are like you have a high quality of life, which like, reaffirms that Bitcoin is a good thing for yourself and for society because it allows you to have a happy, stable, like long term, long time preference come life. Yeah, definitely. So I like how you worded it, because I was really struggling with this concept the last couple of weeks.

Robin (00:20:10) – And people love it when you share your life, by the way. Like this off topic, but as you mentioned it, like, if, if, if you share stuff on your podcast and I in the first episodes, I did not share a lot about me, but I tried to share more and more about my story also. I mean, I always, make the episodes about my guests, but sometimes it’s really cool to like, get in some some personal stories and get in, like, I have people watch my episode every day. and they are curious about the guests, of course, but they are, really also curious about myself. So, if you share small stories of yourself, like, shared a lot that I’m a swimmer. I shared a lot about that. I shared a lot about my personal investment, story how I did also shared coins and then came back to Bitcoin only. I shared some of those stories. And this is the stuff that actually people remember, and I had people on that watch also a lot of my podcasts before, those people that are the first time on a podcast, they wanted to prepare themselves and they like, watch the episodes.

Robin (00:21:27) – And when I went with them on the podcast, then, for example, as with Luke or with other people, I had the feeling that I’m already best friends with them because they knew so much about me. And it felt.

Speaker 3 (00:21:43) – Like it’s it’s it’s.

Robin (00:21:44) – It’s, sharing stuff online. like, for me, it’s like you have to make either decision. Either you are completely off grid. Your your face is not shown. You don’t show yourself or your online, once you’re online, you you people will know you people. If someone wants to find out who’s funny and is she related to Bitcoin, they are now able to do it because you put yourself out there. And then I always recommend like share what you’re comfortable sharing. and the more you share, the, the better or relationship you can make with your, viewers because it’s like with, with in real life. Also like if you have friends, the best friends know the most of you because you shared the most with the few with them.

Robin (00:22:33) – And it’s the same way in, in, in social media. The only important thing with that is you have to set like, your, like, complete boundaries where, like, okay, this is where I’m not talking about, stuff like that. For example, I, I talk a lot about, my girlfriend also in the podcast show, but I never share her name. I never share other stuff about her, because I want to respect her privacy. and even though she’s herself online, she has more YouTube subscribers to me. But but, I don’t want to talk to her. I don’t want to, make this connection. so I just talk my girlfriend, so I don’t need to to say her name. So, like, it’s there’s, things where you just have to be like, okay, these are the things that I want to keep private. This is what I not want to share. And the rest? I’m open. And I’m feeling like. I mean, this is up to you how you do it, but this is how I’ve done it.

Robin (00:23:35) – And I think, having having this distance remote relationship with the viewers is really cool. and I get the comments section I love because they are getting better and better because the relationship is getting better and better. Besides the few scam comments that I have to delete every day, I think there’s some I don’t even know the names. just saying am something token going on? that I have to delete my. I’m uploading a video first five minutes. I have 30 comments of of that spot about things. it’s it’s it’s quite annoying, but I, I try to keep my comment sections clean.

Speaker 3 (00:24:15) – Yeah.

Dani (00:24:15) – I used to work for Tony Vas and the spammers are always commenting. Eventually we gave up on, like, micromanaging all the scams because it was like every week it was a different coin and a different scammer. I did I did actually end up writing, code for a bot to help manage the comments. I have it somewhere, so if one day you need it, I will hook you up with it.

Speaker 3 (00:24:44) – I mean.

Robin (00:24:44) – in the end it would have it would be the job of Twitter, YouTube to deal with the stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:24:50) – Yeah.

Robin (00:24:51) – I feel like on Twitter, even though I have the more followings and they get more comments there, it’s better. I feel like I don’t get a lot of it. Maybe I’m not seeing it, I don’t. More of a quality filter in Twitter activated. So maybe in Twitter it’s better, but in YouTube I activated that. I see all the comments. so like it’s it’s weird, but yeah, definitely. I, I’m, I’m really passionate about sharing my, my stuff online. I’m also seeing like the podcast that I do now, is not a short term thing. Like I will do my podcast, Dil de la di, because it’s, it’s fascinating for me to having this, out, out this, yeah, this.

Speaker 3 (00:25:35) – This.

Robin (00:25:37) – Broadcasting of my current, beliefs of my current, friends and circles that I have, and documented. I see it also, this this I saw it in a random speech, and it’s resonated a lot with me.

Robin (00:25:53) – It has nothing to do with Bitcoin, by the way. But this resonate a lot with me. the he said like he’s really passionate about content created creation because he thinks about his grand grandson that is now able to watch his his grand, grand, grand grandpa, how he was in life, what he did, what he, he did and stuff like that. And this is something where I’m like, this is really cool. How much money would I give to see my grand, grand grandpa? Not only on a picture. Like, how amazing would be to have like two hours of podcast with him where he explained his world views? This would be something I would actually pay a lot of money to get, and putting this out and, and showing if, if a grand, grand, grand, grand grandson is interested in it, he can look at it. That’s amazing.

Dani (00:26:44) – Well, I already have a daughter, so I can resonate very much with your idea. I have more questions about the actual 100 episodes, but I do want to talk about, like, since we’re on the personal ground, I wanted to talk about that a little bit more like, where do you live? Do you go to your local conferences? Do you interact with the community and like real life? What, what how do you feel about that stuff?

Robin (00:27:06) – I’m trying to be more, physical involved also in Bitcoin, if I can say it like that.

Robin (00:27:14) – I was last year in Prague. I will be this year in Prague. Prague is amazing because it’s such a huge conference. So everybody is there. Everybody that is really involved in Bitcoin will be there. I’m also moving to Vienna. I’m probably going to meetups also there. right now I’m close like one two hours away from Vienna in a smaller city, which I have not been to any meetups. There are meetups some time, but not a lot. And every time it was, I did not have time. so it was like a weird, weird thing. and I was. I’m only one year now here. And before I was in Munich. In Munich, I was also at some meetups, which I love. Honestly, I’m getting to know, bitcoiners, like, actually in person, it’s a different feeling. I always encourage everybody to go to conferences. If you never have been to a conference or meetup, go to some something like that. Maybe start with a local meetup. There is.

Robin (00:28:15) – No matter where you live. in like, one, two hours, reach. There’s some Bitcoin meetup. If you look it up like.

Speaker 3 (00:28:23) – This.

Robin (00:28:24) – That’s like, I don’t know if there’s any place on the world where there’s no Bitcoin meetup, in not two hours range or something like.

Speaker 3 (00:28:32) – That.

Robin (00:28:35) – You probably find it somehow. so I encourage everybody to go to Bitcoin meetups, to local meetups, and meet people there. And then, if you’re ready, go to a Bitcoin Prague conference. it can be intimidating if there are like 8000 people there. But 8000 people is also good because nobody will notice you anyways. Like you can go in there and be basically a ghost because if nobody knows you, you, you, you will be unnoticed because there are so many faces around. So you can really go to the booths, check out the companies. you can meet, people. I got a picture with Michael Saylor and Saffron and Moose on the same picture, with me, which looks hilarious because I’m two meters and, Michael Saylor is small, and size 14 is even smaller than him.

Robin (00:29:20) – which looks like kind of like that.

Speaker 3 (00:29:24) – so.

Robin (00:29:25) – I, I’m loving this this this, picture. so.

Speaker 3 (00:29:29) – We.

Dani (00:29:29) – Meet Jimmy Song. Jimmy song is super tall. He he doesn’t look it at all.

Robin (00:29:36) – I I’ve never met Jimmy Song in in real life, I think I don’t know if he, he was not at Bitcoin Prague last year or I just missed him. but I he’s tall, you say?

Speaker 3 (00:29:49) – Yeah.

Dani (00:29:50) – So you’ll get the opposite effect when you take a photo with it. Well, because we’ll be even. So so the next week. I do agree with the conference. It’s one thing that also happens is that you’ll be in you. You can be a ghost, but also you’ll find other people who will be open to talking to you. And what you will quickly discover is that most Bitcoiners have gone on very similar journeys. Like you discover it, you go shit coin for a little bit while you like, find your footing, and then when you start like maturing and realizing what this really is about, then you, you stop participating in all the scams and all the money printing, and you focus your energy back on Bitcoin.

Dani (00:30:31) – It just takes a moment to like take to make that realization. That’s why I think that they do the halving graduations. Like what did it like what, graduation you’re from because you have to kind of go through a halving to really become a maximalist. Unless you’re extremely smart, you have to go through, like, this little journey.

Robin (00:30:52) – It’s fascinating to see Michael Taylor because he has been from the beginning Bitcoin. Like once he got bitcoin he never looked at any altcoins. He probably looked at altcoins but privately and he researched about it. I’m 100% certain like it’s fascinating for me how how amazingly he entered the space because most do some altcoins. You also see it with Gary Cardano right now. I interviewed him and he is definitely a Bitcoin. Maxey like when you talk with him, his mindset that’s a Bitcoin maxi mindset that just did not discover the Bitcoin maxi thing. so he will be I think right there where he is. But he did the interview with the Cardano guy, I think, or Solana, I think I know one of the two things I don’t even know which which Bitcoin he was on.

Dani (00:31:47) – I had a question under these lines which was like would you ever bring on the show to interview you like your enemies in the sense of like keeping your enemies close or learning what they’re thinking about. Or would you like to try to strive away from diverging opinions?

Robin (00:32:03) – I have a close friend in Munich that begs me always to bring some shit going on, and I’m always saying I am curious about stuff, but I don’t want to promote, scams. And for me, all the altcoins, are in some sense a scam. maybe they are not intended as a scam. Maybe they don’t want to scam people. They just like, really want to improve on something and they really think there’s utility value and innovation in India. but at the end of the day, I think there is no real value. I could be wrong, honestly. I’m, I’m, I’m I’m getting through my podcast. I actually am more open, and more free market maximalist then then, saying more toxic stuff because I’m thinking like, okay, there is like, someone pays millions of dollars for some picture.

Robin (00:33:02) – I don’t get it. Like, I don’t get out, like why someone is paying so.

Speaker 3 (00:33:06) – Much in.

Dani (00:33:07) – Bitcoin for the Buy Bitcoin sign. Are you talking about the.

Speaker 3 (00:33:11) – Bitcoin.

Dani (00:33:13) – Bitcoin.

Robin (00:33:15) – This is yeah this is what I also don’t get. But I’m a free market maximalist where I’m like if someone pays a price for that it’s okay. Like if like I would not do it, I would not recommend it. but if someone does it, it’s okay. Like the, the if, if nobody was forced to do it or nobody was lied to. this is where, most altcoins fail when I see their website and they’re like, oh, we said this decentralized, ding ding ding ding ding. No, you’re not, you’re not decentralized. There’s one person that can alter the the protocol. There’s one point even with Ethereum, there’s Vitalik that truly owns and controls this whole thing. He can, get the thing from proof of work to proof of stake. He can reverse transactions. He clearly is in control of the protocol, as there’s no question about it.

Robin (00:34:13) – But they’re like, oh, we are decentralized apps. No, you like, not decentralized. Your decentralized, more decentralized than a centralized database. But there is a single point of failure. That’s a company, what you’re running. And this is where I have most of my problems. But I also had people on, the gold guy, not Peter Schiff, but someone similar to him, but, someone that has actually Bitcoin, but he only has like 5 or 10% of bitcoin and the rest is in gold. and, and he was really also good about altcoins and shit coins. he was like they have some value. and also he was like, gold is superior and stuff like that. But he admitted in the end of the podcast that it’s very likely that Bitcoin is outperforming gold. so he was probably the most anti bitcoin maxi guy I had on but even though the the episode was, great performing and people liked it, I think, I think it’s, it’s not bad. if you bring on other guests, but right now, like, I like to speak with bitcoiners, and that’s why I have the bitcoiners on.

Dani (00:35:33) – Yeah. And I meant it more in the sense that, like, it’s education through debate, I. I didn’t mean it so much as, like, giving them a space to advertise their own product, but more as in, like, how much you learn from debating these technologies and actually explaining why they’re not Bitcoin and why they’re not that like the the value that they’re trying to propose or the arguments they’re trying to make are not there. But like but then I realized that that would make more sense. If you have two guests, one who is in favor of it, one who is against and they can debate the technology together that like, hosting.

Robin (00:36:12) – Yeah, I would.

Speaker 3 (00:36:13) – Definitely I.

Robin (00:36:14) – Would definitely do that. I don’t know if, if, someone is willing to do that because I’m clearly on the Bitcoin camp and I would have to be the moderator. That’s neutral. I it would be really hard for me to, to be that neutral host. But I think I would be not not as bad in this as some might think.

Robin (00:36:34) – but right now I’m just, like, really curious about Bitcoiners. and I, I am booked till I think, like, the middle of May. Like, I’m always like, at least two, sometimes even four weeks in advance. Completely booked every day with, with guests. so I, I have absolute no problem in getting guests on the podcast. and so I’m like, before I ran out of Bitcoin, maybe I think of like, oh. Is really interesting. Maybe let’s get a debate or something like that. But there’s so many great people out there that I want to interview before I get into altcoins and stuff like that. and then there’s already this thing where I’m like, okay, these episodes are getting, a few months old now, half a year old, maybe soon, like a year old. I started in December. December is still far away, but at some point it’s getting a one year old. what do I do? Do I release great episodes again? Because it was a great episode, and then I can release it again.

Robin (00:37:39) – Or do I invite him back, and have a second round with him? and then there are those questions where I’m, like, curious. Like, I think I will not run out of of cool bitcoiners to interview. this is a thing that I actually feared when I started it, but there are so many great people in Bitcoin.

Dani (00:37:59) – And also there’s always a new thing happening. So my my opinion it would be to just invite them again, because there’s always something new happening in Bitcoin and they’ll have a new perspective about this, new Bip or this new, wallet who’s doing things wrong or is doing things really right. You know, there’s always something new to talk about. So I’m sure you will have plenty of opportunities.

Speaker 3 (00:38:25) – To come, but I actually but.

Robin (00:38:26) – I actually had this, this fear where I’m like, who will come on my podcast like, like now, 100 episodes later? It’s it’s it seems irrational, but I had to like who, who will who is willing to come on my podcast.

Robin (00:38:41) – Like, who is willing to talk with me. Turns out people, like to talk about themselves and people like to be interviewed. I rarely get someone to say no to an invitation. Even bigger ones, like, I actually nobody, there’s, only, I think 3 or 4 people that said no, but they are not because they are big. They just said no, because they never went on an interview and they said, like, they want to stay private and stuff like that. And they even have people on completely anonymous like their, their voices, their, the, their.

Speaker 3 (00:39:18) – yeah, yeah.

Robin (00:39:20) – Yeah. Their.

Dani (00:39:21) – Well, no image and with the voice, muffled or like.

Robin (00:39:27) – I just, blend in like a black screen, like they’re not shown at all. and it’s just their voice. So, like, I’m the only one seen in the screen, and I was just blending their their profile photo usually, and that’s also like, that’s I’m like, I’m open that, like, if someone doesn’t want to share his his face, it’s, it’s fine for me.

Robin (00:39:49) – Like, this is no problem. And even it’s funny, it has no impact on the average full duration. I thought like people want to see faces, but it does not like the people still watch it and usually normally.

Dani (00:40:02) – So. And then there’s also some very important players in the big bitcoin industry that will be willing to participate in the conversation but want to remain anonymous, because I’ve been like when we were doing the Tony based podcast that also happened, that we would have guests who would have guests that were anonymous with the voice distortion as well.

Robin (00:40:27) – Voice distortion actually did not have, I think I have can I do it with now? You hear me differently, right? Could you hear me differently now?

Dani (00:40:38) – A little bit. Just a little bit, yes.

Robin (00:40:41) – Okay, then. Not. Not really. Okay. But now it’s back to normal, right?

Dani (00:40:45) – Yeah. It was just a little subtle, like a little deeper, but it wasn’t like. But who knows. Who knows if that is enough to, like, do the trick.

Robin (00:40:53) – Yeah, I played around with my new mixer because because of the new microphone, I need a mixer. And I was like, I played around a little bit with that. but I was like, yeah, you could do it like that and just go and interview with with that. But it’s more for me, it’s more a gimmick. and, not not a voice distortion. My voice is pretty normal now.

Dani (00:41:16) – So I have another question for you. I mean, I have another question about the 100 episodes, but before I get to it, I want to ask you, what’s your favorite favorite Bitcoin book?

Robin (00:41:31) – I mean, the one that I actually still give out to orange peel people is the Bitcoin standard. It’s it’s it’s really boring to say it because it’s so such an obvious choice, but it there’s a reason why it’s so obvious. it explains the, the thing, the how I see it the best way. And I was orange build a lot, but I was orange. Built also by, Michael Saylor a lot in my early days, for, like, right around four years ago.

Robin (00:42:08) – probably. That’s why, like, this book helped me the most to get Bitcoin. When I first got into Bitcoin, I was in the stock mindset. So I was like an asset has to have a cash flow. Other if it doesn’t have a cash flow I cannot value it. and I really needed Michael SATA and cipher dynamos explaining me the value of money. What is money? and it does not have to be, cash flow. And Cyberdyne does this great, because he can explain the history of money. So great, especially in his book. and I’m, I’m now, trying to read also his his, second and third book. and I think he co-wrote even a fourth book or something like that about a food, which I’m curious about. but it does too many books to read. Honestly, in the beginning already. There’s so many great things going on, and I love it. and, Michael Saylor was great because he is the longest serving publicly traded CEO, publicly the CEO of a publicly traded company.

Robin (00:43:17) – so he knows how to speak to an investor. And I was an investor in stocks. So he’s articulating things. His way of speaking really resonated with me. so I would love for him to write a book. I would have, really, really liked it. But he did not write a book. He just, decided to go on, on on podcast, which I respect the decision. but Cyberdyne, the way he explained it in the Bitcoin standard, is still for me, the favorite, favorite book. And I think it’s really cool also that the foreword of the Bitcoin standard is now with Michael Saylor. after the how was his name, Paul Tullis. The other one that was before the, the foreword, of of of the Bitcoin standard. And now it’s Michael Saylor. And I love that they, they do have like partnered up for for that book and it’s, it’s still my number one book for orange peeling people and giving it to people. I, I meet an ex-colleague in like three weeks.

Robin (00:44:23) – and when I went from, from my work, I gifted her this book. So I’m really curious if she, has read it, and I will interview her about it. Not interview on, on, on on the podcast, but I will speak with you about it. So this was the book that was also the most successful in orange building people, because when I go ahead and try to speak with people about Bitcoin in real life and orange peel them, I’m really defensive. Like if they’re interested in it, they can come to me and I will point them to the resources. And if they then invest the time in being in a book, being in that and that and that, then I’m willing to debate them a little bit more and willing to speak with them more. I completely, stopped speaking with people that did not spend time learning about Bitcoin. It’s I found it. Maybe it’s a maybe it’s controversial, but I found it’s a waste of time to speak with people that are, opinionated about Bitcoin but have no clue about it.

Dani (00:45:28) – Yeah. Like if if they’re neutral or don’t know, then there’s still like a way of like having a dialogue. But if someone is negative but also doesn’t want to study it, it’s difficult to then find common ground. Definitely. Yeah. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Robin (00:45:44) – And even people that, are neutral about it or like even positive about it, I put them on like, you should study this, you should study this, you should study this. And then after that, I will talk with them because I think you have to. Bitcoin is not something you can spark an interest in someone in like one to our conversation. but you have to sit down and really understand it. It’s something that’s for most people. Most people think inflation is good. Most people think, that this, this, this whole concept of Bitcoin and deflationary money, is, is, is not as great. Inflation is good. We need inflation a little bit of it maybe we have. About too much inflation, but a little bit inflation is good.

Robin (00:46:33) – Most people still think that because it’s teached in this course. then blockchain, nobody knows what actually blockchain is. And then I also try never do introduce too many words they don’t understand. Like if you talk with someone, and you mention one, two words, they don’t understand, they’re gone. So that’s why I’m, like, not even mentioning blockchain or any like, blockchain is like a really, like when you say blockchain to a Bitcoin, they think that you are in crypto world. and when you mention blockchain to a newbie, he does not know what you’re speaking about. Like blockchain, you can basically completely delete from your.

Speaker 3 (00:47:15) – Own, you know.

Robin (00:47:17) – way of speaking. and yeah, it’s like I’m trying to, to, to make it really easy, like go out in the world, go in some places where a lot of people pass by and ask them what the halving is like. If you interview 100 people, maybe one guy knows it because he got, he got, he saw it in the news and he read something about it.

Robin (00:47:43) – Like, not a lot of people know what what what the things that we are taking for granted are, so we have to be the educators. We have to make education really, really good and accessible for everybody. And this means not talking too much technical there that if you have a technical podcast, this is fine. but this is a podcast probably for Bitcoin or India. And they want to dive deeper for programmers and stuff like that. But if you, wanting to have the newer guys, the newer people, in the, in the Bitcoin sphere, you cannot talk in those technical terms. You should also like delete some some trigger words from your language and always try to do that in my podcast. And it gets really hard. like if, if there’s something in the podcast that is, hard to understand or like a word that is not commonly used, I always ask the guest, okay, can you expand, like please, summarize quickly what you’re talking about. I had someone on, he was talking about why lightning the Lightning Network will revolutionize the workforce.

Robin (00:48:53) – And he had some articles in the in the Bitcoin magazine, even, about that. And the first thing I did in the podcast, I asked him, okay, can you please, in simple terms, explain what is the Lightning Network? How does it work? and, and, yeah, he, he, he had a great he had a great explanation for that. But I think this is always important to lay the groundwork because there’s some guy that is completely new to Bitcoin that watches. Now the second video of of of of Bitcoin. And then there’s someone talking about the Lightning Network. And he’s confused. He’s like what is it like is this something else than Bitcoin. Does it belong to Bitcoin. Is it integrated. Like people don’t know that. And so you have to be really back to the basics. and this is the the the the most important stuff. You have to stick to the basics. You have to speak in a simple language people can understand, otherwise they will just turn up like, yeah, they’re sitting in front of their laptop and they’re like 50 other things they can do right now.

Robin (00:49:58) – And there is Netflix popping up. They can relax now, they can go to bed, they can play a video game, but they’re choosing to watch this video about Bitcoin. They’re giving us their time and getting educated on stuff. So we should not like, be in in make inside jokes. like being, something excluded. Like if, if you make an inside joke and someone new comes in, he does not get it. And if you’re not inside you outside. And then he clicks away and he’s he’s gone. so that’s really important for, I think for for bitcoiners, for educators, for podcast hosts. if you’re not specific, technical and specific for pro bitcoiners that are already in there and want to dive deep in some technical terms, then I understand it. But if you’re someone that has like chest proofs and the micro salers on and then has people on that more aimed to the new people keep it really, really simple like, no, there’s no need to scare someone away with weird, financial terms.

Robin (00:51:06) – This is what, the, the financial planners in the bank always do like, they, they tell you so many financial terms that you’re like, oh. And then you’re like, okay, hear my money and deal with it. But we are not definitely like, we, we want to, have them take care of their own financial, future. And that’s why we have to educate them. And this is something that I’m really passionate about, that. Education of of of new people, like the newer folks in Bitcoin. And, I think it’s really important to speak in a simple language.

Dani (00:51:42) – Yeah. Actually that like, goes into one of my questions that I wanted to ask you earlier, but we got carried away. Like why bitcoin. What was your Bitcoin journey. How did you like this. You kind of told me like what your journey was. But how did you discover it and how did you like how did it capture you and why that’s important?

Robin (00:52:05) – Yeah, that’s a really cool story.

Robin (00:52:07) – I was before I talked about like, let’s start from the beginning, when I was 18 years old. maybe let’s start even earlier. I was always an extremely saving person. Like, even when my mom gave me, like, €3, to to school so I can get some bread in the school. I always took away at least €1, so I was like, even when I was really small and really little, I got the point where I’m like, if I save that money, I can buy my own stuff from that. Like, I’m not depending on my mom then. So like, I, I got the initially the this thing like if I save financial energy despise me freedom that that I can do whatever I want with that money. Obviously you don’t get rich if you save €1 a day from mom’s pocket money when you are like ten years old. but, this was really like early on. And there’s even this, this one thing in, in that I this is a funny I never shared this story, but I think it’s stuck in my head.

Robin (00:53:12) – And I was like, in school, I don’t know how old I was like really little, maybe 11 or 12 years old or something like that. And I was extremely saving, like, and when the other people and it’s I’m not like from a poor family, like I was from a middle class, normal family. And my dad struggled a lot because he built a company. but then when he built a company, he did really good because he sold the company and stuff like that. so we struggled financially till I was, like, five years old, but then it was like middle class, and it was really good. but so I, I did not have to save crazy. Like, I did not have to, like, save every cent and watch everything because everything has been given to me. but the funny thing is that I was the saving personality, and it’s probably because of my dad, because he also, like, is like that. And when my it was like in one lunch time in school, it was like 11, am and it was lunch time.

Robin (00:54:11) – I was in the, the local supermarket, and my mom was by accident also there. And she saw that I only, like, got a really small bread because I know when I come home, I have the whole fridge for myself and I don’t have to buy anything, so why eat now a lot when I can eat later for free? and I had this small bread and then I was like, yeah, €5. Buy something.

Speaker 3 (00:54:36) – More like.

Robin (00:54:39) – He she she she, she could not see it. And, like, this is, some, some stories that, like, stuck with me and having this savings mind, which is then also important for the later story when you, when you then get to 18 years old, you all of the sudden I even next to school, I worked because I got it that I have to work and and start earning my money. so I earned my money and I had an i.t job like a software developer, because I wasn’t a software developer in school.

Robin (00:55:12) – So I had like some small projects, even with 18 years old, going on. And I saved just money. And with 18 years old, then you can invest because before 18 years old, you’re not allowed to invest without your mom and dad. it’s at least in Austria. I don’t know how it is around the world. Which is funny for me. You can vote with 16 years old. You can drive a car with 17 years old. But investing your in your future, you’re not allowed to still till 18 years old. But it’s okay. so I opened my my account. I got into, ETFs, finance, stuff like that. Nothing special. I think I made like a few euros in a year and yeah, lost it all because I had to pay fees and stuff like that. So I first year for investing, it was like leveling out. and I had this moment, where, where I invested then, in individual stocks also. And, the funny thing is, like, I had no clue about stock picking, no clue about what it is, but I knew I want to do more with my money, like the savings account I had.

Robin (00:56:20) – I had the ETFs, but it was not. It’s not not enough. Like it was like I put it there because then the money was not in the bank account. So I, I don’t know why. I knew, initially that it’s not doing good if it’s just sitting in the bank account. I’m really grateful that I just had this feeling always that if it’s just in the bank account, it’s not doing anything. I did not understand money like, but I just like from my heart. I knew if it’s just sitting there not doing anything, which is fascinating for me that I understood that without any knowledge about it. Like there was no guy in my family explained it to me, like it was just something that came to my mind, and then, yeah, savings account ETFs and stuff like that. and then I was like, yeah, let’s pick individual stocks. I had no clue about it, but let’s, let’s get into it. And the moment where I was deciding, let’s go into individual stocks, I was sitting at McDonald’s, as, yeah, as a 19 year old, boy.

Robin (00:57:20) – And I was like, yeah, let’s, let’s buy McDonald’s stock. So I bought McDonald’s stocks. And funnily enough, from that McDonald’s stock, I got a lot of motivation because all of the sudden they were like, I don’t know, €500, €600 or something like that in the stock. And because of that, I learned a lot about stock investing, PE ratio, stuff like that. Management even got some courses online though really deep. The good thing I was bored at school, so I had my headphones on and learned while I learned about investing while I was sitting on school. I may I make this story maybe a little too long and hopefully it’s not bad for you.

Dani (00:58:00) – And it’s, you know, around Bitcoiners or. I mean, when I started, into Bitcoin, I learned that in children, one of the signs that they’re going to be successful in life is if they understand delayed reward. So like if you do an exercise like I can give you one cookie now or two cookies when you get back from school, which do you pick? And the children who pick two cookies when you get back from school tend to have a, higher chance to succeed in life.

Dani (00:58:32) – So. So those are very like the traits that you’re talking about. Go very aligned with the Bitcoin culture.

Robin (00:58:39) – I have 100%.

Speaker 3 (00:58:41) – Yeah.

Robin (00:58:42) – And moving on with the story, I was like, I then started to learn a lot about individual stock picking and I was quite successful with it. I made my you actually quite huge gains, with it. I lost also a lot of money, just.

Speaker 3 (00:59:00) – Like.

Robin (00:59:00) – It was, really interesting ride for like three years or something like that. And because I was extremely successful and I was outspoken about it, I even had a YouTube channel with stock investing. I talked about, Tesla stock because this was my most successful stock, that I had also had Apple, Facebook, I had all the tech stock because I was a software developer. and because I was so outspoken about, my investing strategies and how much I even shared exactly how much money I made. I now deleted all those, videos because it was, then you couldn’t figure out how much bitcoin I have now.

Robin (00:59:37) – And I’m trying to hide this a little bit more. but, yeah, I guess you can kind of find it out online if you if you really dig deep. I don’t know if it’s possible. Still, but maybe it’s somehow possible.

Speaker 3 (00:59:50) – and,

Dani (00:59:51) – Even small amount of Bitcoin will be coveted. So, once you’re in the public eye, what really matters is that you’re you follow your own advice in the sense that we, we follow our own advice in terms of security, safety, privacy and just being meticulous with your cold storage and all that stuff. Because even. Yeah, I don’t know if you knew about that hack where one of the Bitcoin developers, he’s even like a Bitcoin core developer and he got robbed because someone I mean, recently they sent this disclosure that the FBI had collected the names of all the people who had bought tickets to some developer conference. So it’s, it seems like someone from there was the person who robbed him. So you just have to be very careful.

Robin (01:00:40) – They have 100%, I think, in Self-custody.

Robin (01:00:44) – there are those points where you have to hit, like if you have over a thousand, euros or dollars in Bitcoin, you have to have self-custody. There’s no way around it under 1000. there might be a like, okay, let’s let’s accumulate them on exchange and then move them over to Self-custody. Once it hits that. But even then you can have like an mobile wallet or something like that. But there can be this argument made that, Bitcoin on exchange might be even safer than some, some mobile wallet when it’s like broken. And you can, not, not find it anymore, but, but even above €1,000, there’s no discussion about self-custody. You have to have self-custody. and I’m filling my friends about it because I have a lot of friends that are in Bitcoin, and they have a lot more money than €1,000 in Bitcoin, and they keep it on exchange, and they even had it in Celsius and they lost money, but now they got it back. And then it’s not that bad because they actually got like I don’t know, 70 or 80% or something like that from Celsius back.

Robin (01:01:49) – So now they are like playing it down again. And I’m like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53) – But we will lose it again. You have to.

Dani (01:01:56) – Send them to our podcast. Our podcast has a technical section and I, I, I, I really liked a lot of the things you were saying because for the Spanish podcast, like I’m Colombian originally and so I want to do a version of the podcast in Spanish, but I had been like struggling to like how to get started. And I think that a lot of what you said helped me in the sense that it might be easier to start the Colombian podcast with the stuff that to me is kind of trivial, but I think it’s it’s not actually trivial, it’s just trivial to me because I’ve heard it so many times, I’ve had it so internalized that I don’t like give it the worth and the value that it has, which is to start with the philosophy and the culture and more like, what is money and why do we like. But in this but relating it back to events in South America or Latin events, because it’s very difficult for Latin people, they don’t relate to like, like, you know, how the money goes to the bankers and we, how do you call it when you, bailout the bailouts? Like the, like a lot of Latin people don’t have a strong relationship to this idea of bailing out the banks or what? Because that’s not not happening so much in some of the Latin countries, as it happens in the developed countries.

Dani (01:03:19) – So we have to, like, relate it back to economic factors that are happening locally in those communities, but without using big words. Oh my dog, that reminds me, I think the book, I think, when when Safety Book was coming out, that was right when I was getting into Bitcoin and I think that I got that book for free because I took a photo with my dog and the Mastering Bitcoin book, and it was like a little competition. So saved and sent me, what is, no. the Bitcoin standard. He sent me the Bitcoin standard because I had won this little photo competition when I first got into Bitcoin. So I read this book a long time ago. And a lot of the things that you talk about the book were the things that resonated with me a lot. Like he he has a very good ability to explaining what is money very clearly and like why why that whole structure is falling apart. Why? And and he makes it less like we’re so attached to, to the coins that we use today because it’s become normal.

Dani (01:04:28) – So just the idea that, like you would be switching from shells to gold is like, know why we have shells? Like, why would we use gold? You’re crazy. So, like, it allows you to understand, like the evolution and kind of become less attached to to and and being more capable of letting go of this idea that we need fiat and become more comfortable with the idea that this can evolve and become like our money can become a new thing. It doesn’t have to be the same thing. We’ve been using, because this isn’t how what we have used forever. So I do think that that’s a great choice, even though it’s an obvious one.

Robin (01:05:03) – Yeah. And it’s so important that we hammer home this, basics. and I just discovered that I was I did, I did, I did wander off in my story. I was I didn’t even come to my bitcoin part of the story how I discovered bitcoin.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19) – I just yeah.

Dani (01:05:20) – Then what happened. Tell us.

Robin (01:05:23) – I’m sorry. I’m I’m all over the place usually when I speak.

Robin (01:05:26) – that’s why when I have like, my interviews lined up, and I have the guest on, I have to have like a document on where I’m like, okay, I wanted to talk about this, and I have this question, still on stuff like that. Then I’m organized, then I can dig deep. But if I’m, like, interviewed, I have not no notes or something like that. I’m just.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46) – Like, going in there.

Robin (01:05:48) – I’m going, which is, more chaotic. But I was successful investing and people kept asking me about Bitcoin, and I was for three years saying it’s a scam. And that’s why I’m saying we have to get those basics right. I was saying from 2017 to 2, 2020 that Bitcoin is a scam. and then, a friend, a colleague of mine actually asked me, oh, what do you think of Bitcoin? And he was not even in Bitcoin. Like he was just asking me about it. but he was asking so great that I discovered that I don’t have good enough arguments.

Robin (01:06:23) – And I went on this journey on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, like on a weekend journey. And I’m like, oh, I don’t have a lot of plans. And I had this, I did not have as much to do as I have now. So I had the time to, like, really block out just three days and dive really deep into one topic, like Friday coming home, from I think it was work back then. yeah. For several servers I had then, it was works. On Friday midday, I came home, got on my computer and was diving deep into Bitcoin till Sunday to prove to my friend that was not even in Bitcoin.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04) – Why the big.

Dani (01:07:07) – Scam?

Robin (01:07:08) – Yes, I want to prove I want to find the arguments why Bitcoin is a scam. And I’m always really open to everything. Like I’m I’m not someone that wants to find his arguments. I really want to dive deep in. I discovered the Bitcoin community back then. in this in this weekend I discovered interviews, podcasts, and I was like, oh shit, this could be something that this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31) – Could be this.

Robin (01:07:32) – Could be not a scam. so on Monday, I opened my Coinbase account, on Tuesday, I bought, my ledger. this was. Yeah. I obviously don’t have my Coinbase account anymore. I obviously don’t have a ledger anymore. but, I still have, I had this, and then I like this is also something. I don’t know why, but I did not even get Bitcoin. But I got self-custody on the second day, and I still kind of thought that Bitcoin is a scam, but I already got self-custody. Like I never had custody bitcoin. Like from the first year that I invested in Bitcoin, I always had self-custody. I don’t know why. Actually. I just like watch the video and he’s like, oh, it gets self-custody and I was like, okay, let’s get Self-custody then I didn’t understand what it is. I, I think I, I thought it’s the only way to hold Bitcoin. I thought, you cannot even hold it somewhere else. because the exchange that I used to buy my stocks did not offer bitcoin back then.

Robin (01:08:37) – So I was like, oh, I have to go to like how to buy bitcoin. And then there was like some video. I don’t even remember who made it, but he’s like, oh, get a Coinbase account and put it on your ledger. And then I was like, okay, let’s get a composition by ledger. Put it on this. Like there was never. The question if I leave it on the Coinbase. And yeah, this was basically my Bitcoin story. It was 2020 and from there onwards I just learned every week and a little bit more. And funnily enough, from 2020 to 1 year later, I went from having all those stocks, all those properties and getting completely only in Bitcoin one year later like 2021 was the point where I was only in Bitcoin because I got educated on it and I was like, at some point that was 50, 50, 50% Tesla, 50% in Bitcoin. Then I was like, one day. It does not make sense that I hold Tesla.

Robin (01:09:34) – Tesla can be crashing tomorrow because it’ll Musk make some something stupid I still tweet. Yeah some tweet or something. I think the company is great, but holding so much money in just one company is a big risk because if every company they can all the time something happening. So I was just like, I don’t want to have this centralized risk. And I don’t know when some somewhere around 2021, I decided to ditch all my Tesla stocks and and got slowly, slowly, more and more in Bitcoin. And I had 5%, 10%, 20% in Bitcoin. And then yeah, one year later, around that time after I got the first bitcoin, then I got all in in bitcoin. I only have bitcoin now like I, I own my microphone laptop camera computer and and my bitcoin that’s it. Nothing else like I live rented I live I don’t own anything else. Not even a cow or something like that. I, I, I, I try to own nothing except bitcoin and things where it does not make sense to rent it.

Robin (01:10:42) – I, I saw like some phone renting and laptop renting but this does not make sense for me financially. So I the things that are small like under €1,000 like microphone, phone, keyboard and stuff like that, I buy. But other than that and clothes of course, and stuff, but other than that I just have bitcoin.

Dani (01:11:06) – Yeah, I actually watched an episode of somebody who’s been in Bitcoin for a long time now, and he was talking about how he didn’t own real estate anymore or anything, because that way he was, free. He could move and were on. The only part that I found difficult about that concept or that approach is my trust for the food sources. The thing is that, like in Europe, you don’t you’re not at such risk. But living in the United States, like, I don’t trust the steak I can buy at the store. I don’t trust the eggs. I don’t trust the milk. It’s you. You have to be very careful how you source your food if you don’t own anything.

Dani (01:11:42) – I have chickens at home.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44) – Oh, yeah.

Robin (01:11:44) – I mean, this is like I also have a small dog, but but I don’t, I mean, when I say I don’t have assets, I don’t consider my, my dog assets.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56) – But yeah, you.

Dani (01:11:57) – Have to kind of have land to be able to have chickens and.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00) – Oh yes. Yes, stuff like that. Definitely.

Robin (01:12:04) – And I like the approach that Jake said, like, I think Jake Muller’s, and I want to get to this level, I mean, even a tweet about it, he said, like, I own my company, my house, and, my Bitcoin. And I think this is a good approach. Like if you have a company, obviously it’s good to own it. and then the next thing is a house. I would if you have, not enough money. so, like, if you’re in a situation where when you buy a house, it would be all your financial energy that you need to buy this house.

Robin (01:12:42) – I would definitely not recommend buying a house because then all your financial energy is tied into that. Then you have to pay back a credit, maybe over 40, 20 years. This is like really, a hard to overcome. And it binds into one place. But if you really want to like the emotional and emotional decision, you can still do it. I, I personally don’t choose to do that because I don’t I want to be a little bit more free. If you’re in a situation where, like when you buy a house, it would only be like a few percent of your net worth and like, go ahead and don’t have a problem with that. but I would not pay to put all my financial energy in the house and then don’t have any bitcoin and stuff like that because, I think, real estate could become let’s let’s frame it more positively. Real estate will become way more affordable in the future, I think.

Dani (01:13:35) – Well. And the thing is that the trick is that you buy the house, then you’re in debt, then you have to have a job.

Dani (01:13:42) – So you become a slave to the fiat system because you need that income in order to pay for the house. So the the objective of this Bitcoin community is to try to help you strive away from those like money, money, time stealing strategies.

Robin (01:13:58) – And this is something that I’m actually, I mentioned my, my, the I mean, I’m keep mentioning my book, but it’s not even, like, not even written.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08) – so.

Robin (01:14:09) – let’s see how it evolves. But this is kind of also the idea, where I want to go because, I learned a lot by interviewing people and by, like, just being on my own and being way more free because at the end of the day is just money. But money can teach you something. and, I’m now in the position where I’m totally, free of time and location. Like, I can choose whenever I want to, work, and I can choose wherever I want to work because it’s all, like, online. the thing that I did not, succeeded with completely, is financial freedom.

Robin (01:14:50) – for me, financial freedom is when you have so much financial energy that you can stop doing any work tomorrow, and you will be fine for the rest of your life. This is when you, have complete financial freedom in in my in my definition, other people have other definitions of that. so I try to value my, my financial energy, actually, in time, I, like when, when someone asked me, how do you value your net worth in, in, in, in bitcoin or in euros? I’m like, I value my net worth in time. Like when I stop doing everything tomorrow. How many years can I possibly live off my bitcoin stack? That’s that’s how I like. I value my net worth in kind of a time of obviously I’m not paying with like, oh I, I bought bought McDonald’s for five minutes of my life now or something like that.

Dani (01:15:48) – Well, it’s just that’s why some people, say that there is never enough money because, the definition of what it means to be like so, so I can get by for the rest of my life.

Dani (01:16:01) – It changes from person to person. Like one person is going to want to have a yacht to travel around the ocean. So they need a lot to get by for the rest of their life. But if you I mean when if we’re talking just the basics, you know, have a decent home, have a, like good access to good quality food, those things are not so expensive. And if you live humble and you appreciate those little things in life, then then that number goes down quite drastically and it becomes more feasible and accomplishable.

Robin (01:16:36) – And I think, when you get to this point where you’re completely free, like you lowered your live standard in the sound of respect, lowering your life center. But I think it’s something good lowering your live standard to something that you like. A minimalistic life where you can live off comfortable for a long period of time. Then you have all those free time. And if you are a decent human being, which I think, 99% of the people are, then you will do something with that time.

Robin (01:17:06) – Maybe not on the first week, but at one month you will get bored. I’m 100% sure. Like, there are so many stories about, young millionaires that try to retire at 23. then they retired till 24, and then they started companies at 25 again. Because, yeah, doing nothing is boring.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27) – Yeah.

Dani (01:17:27) – And is difficult. You you have to like like okay, you achieve that and then what, you just spend it on a beach or you’re going to travel or you go to Bitcoin conferences, like what do you do with that time. You know.

Robin (01:17:40) – And then there’s this interesting point. When you’re completely free, you don’t have to spend any time where you don’t want to spend it. You can spend on the whole topics that you really are passionate about. And then all of a sudden you’re thinking of ways how you can contribute to that community. Then you are free of like, I don’t have to have money from that. You can just contribute freely to it. And I think then there’s the point, because you are contributing and because you are doing so many great things, in this community that you’re actually getting the money that you actually can buy, maybe a yacht someday or something like that, because you’re free.

Robin (01:18:16) – You’re you’re thinking, in another way. And this is what I basically discovered. I was really worried about finances. I was like, because I’m, I’m always like, I want to have more income than, like, expenses every month. and I was like, if I drop my normal job, can I hold myself over water with having more income than expenses? and the short is, yes, I can. And I’m even, like, close to the level than I was before, even though I just started out with that. but the amazing thing is that I don’t worry about money. Like, I was so worried before I took the step to become, self-employed about money. And it was completely senseless. I’m not worried about money at all in my life. I just stand up at like, five, six in the morning. And I worked a whole day today. Right now it’s like ten, 1030 at my time. So I’m like, I’m like, I don’t even want to calculate how many hours I’m already working.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14) – But it doesn’t feel.

Robin (01:19:16) – Like it doesn’t feel like work. It doesn’t feel like a burden to me. and it’s it’s something so amazing if you can just stand up and do what you like, do your love. I’m feeling so grateful that I can, talk about the thing that I’m most passionate about in my life. Right now. Every day and this every day, with a different human being. that is, amazing and does great things in his life, and and I can learn from them. And this is back to your original first question. What who did you learn the most from it? I learned from every guest that comes on something new. And this is fascinating to see because you’re if you’re actually, researching about the guest and you’re actually listening to the guest, because if you’re host, you’re I kind of have to listen.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03) – The best.

Robin (01:20:04) – And you have to think of new questions and stuff like that, and then post-production, you have to edit it. You you listen to it twice, like you listen to it three times before you published and maybe a fourth time, you really learn a lot.

Robin (01:20:17) – Like, I still, I’m having everyday audio books and I’m trying to learn more. But even if I did not learn anything, just my guests are great source. Because we are. Talking about social media. We are talking about branding. We are talking about businesses. We’re talking about Bitcoin. We’re talking about life. We’re talking about food. We are talking about so many different things. Even just for my guests, I think I would benefit so much from all those conversations. And then I’m also getting invited to other podcasts. This week I have this one and another one. Next week I have another invitation to a podcast. So this. It’s just great to being able to live off something that you really love. And I can just encourage everybody to do exactly that. I’m not as aggressive as Gary says it. If you are just working for money, you are here. But. But, but I truly think that if you are not happy with the things you’re doing, you should at least try to find something you love and find a way how you can also get financially rewarded from that.

Dani (01:21:32) – I think we have very similar journeys, like not, not in everything, but we have had moments where we’ve had very similar journeys because right now I’ve like chosen to start this podcast and the way it works for me is that if I’m having fun doing it like this can this can last for a very long time because I, I enjoy the actual doing, which is, which is kind of like what you were saying, like when I’m here and I’m shooting and I’m putting together the gadgets and I’m putting together the technical episodes, like I knew a lot about Bitcoin before starting the podcast where I. But I understood it like in a generic way. But the podcast forces me to go from the generic to the specific, and because I need to communicate these ideas and be very secure of like the technical concepts I’m communicating. So it’s like forced me to go from like generic understandings to, to, to completely specific, like down to the code, understandings. And it’s been really, really fun. I really connect with you on, on the fact that you have to enjoy what you’re doing and when you do enjoy it.

Dani (01:22:38) – And the irony is that when you do enjoy it and you find something that you’re passionate about, you’re very likely to make a lot of money from it.

Robin (01:22:45) – Yeah. Do you have, two different podcasts where you have, like, technical things and where you just, like, have this conversation like this?

Dani (01:22:51) – It’s more like a series. so we have a technical series, we have a gadget series. So the technical. I’m just like talking about the actual technology in the gadgets. It goes like complementing the technical series. So if I’ve been talking about keys, then I talked about, like, key store key storage systems. Now I’m going to do the what is a wallet episode where I’m going to talk just technical. Then I’m going to do the keystone, I’m going to do the J. Then I’m going to talk about what is a node. Then I’m going to do like running a node. So so I’m doing the technical like hand by hand with the gadgets. And then on the other side we’re doing like news and noteworthy and cultural which is like I do I covered like the copper case or like these interviews are more like the cultural section because Bitcoin has so many facets.

Dani (01:23:39) – I couldn’t really like narrow it down to like one thing. So I just had one podcast with multiple series and, and and the fifth one is going to be in Spanish, but in Spanish. It’s weird because you kind of have to do all four, right. You’re still going to have technical talks, we’re still going to have philosophical talks. So we’ll see. We’ll see how it plays out. I’m not totally sure. But going back to your show, I do have a couple questions before we finish, which is, what have been your top ten or top five favorite interviews? That’s one one. And the other one is what is your wish list? Or like a couple names on your wish list that you still haven’t gotten to grasp?

Robin (01:24:19) – I started with the wish list. I made it publicly that I want. I have this goal to have 300 interviews this year at least. I might go over 300, because I’m doing it daily now. I think if I’m continuing daily and I’m exceeding like I have, I will end up at like 310, 320 or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42) – Okay.

Robin (01:24:43) – I’m really passionate about doing over 300. and I would love the 200 guests to be suffering the moose and the 350 guest, Michael Saylor. but I did not even reach out to them, so, like, they could not even. They did not even have the chance to say yes to me. But I will do it, soon with enormous, and then, a little later with, with Michael Saylor. And I would love to have them on the podcast, just because, like Michael Saylor and, and suffering animals are the one, one of the most influential guys in the early days on my Bitcoin thinking that I got it. right now I’m not listening to them because I consume them so much that, I kind of and I listen to Michael Saylor interview. It kind of gets boring nowadays for me. that’s why I like to listen to new guys. That’s why I also in the invited a lot of new guys in, my top five. That’s, like, really hard. of of the current, interviews.

Robin (01:25:45) – I love the interview of Gary Jordan. not because of the Bitcoin aspect, because he’s just a 66 year old guy who has a lot of life experience. And you, you, you, you get the of an authenticity. And this I don’t care about anything, kind of a vibe, which is, really, really, interesting to see. And it was like a fun experience, to, to have then, the second I would put a lot of guys, and unfortunately, I don’t have too many girls on. I would love to have you on my podcast, because if I.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26) – Scroll.

Robin (01:26:26) – Through my my guest list, it’s like girl, girl. It’s like I try to I try to have as many, women also on as possible. But, coming back to the question that two I would get, like the, the, the people like Luke, the people from I forgot his name. He was my third guest, and he said, Bitcoin is a system based on love. I never heard that before.

Robin (01:26:57) – and a really love. Yes, love.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59) – Okay.

Robin (01:27:00) – And I loved it. And how and how he explained it also. And he was never on a other podcast than mine. And I loved his explanation. I loved how he’s talking about, like, on the second place, I would put like 2 or 3 of of them who just like really had an amazing few. And I knew it before, like, because they don’t put out a lot of tweets. they don’t have any YouTube channels. They were never on a podcast. So, like, what do you know about this? The person’s like nothing. And I was just going on to those podcasts with not a lot of questions, because how do you prepare for a podcast where there’s nothing online? And I just like open like, hi, how are you doing? let’s go through your Bitcoin story. And then it goes in the directions that, that you see. and those are the, the stories and those are the podcasts that I actually like, like the most honestly, because they are completely, they are so new and they’re so like they have some sometimes opinions then like, really have to think about them.

Robin (01:28:09) – If Jeff is saying something, I don’t really have to think about it because I heard it 20 times before. even even with Gary Gordon, it was nothing new. I listened to a lot of podcasts of his before, what he does and what he thinks. it was a little more interesting because he’s really early in the Bitcoin community, and he he’s not fully there. as, as as, Jeff Purvis and as, as Michael Saylor and all the other bigger ones. And Natalie Brunelle, Natalie Brunelle, I also want to highlight because, she has a different kind of energy, I love it, I love how she’s talking, but she is a lot on like, Fox News and all those channels. And I think she is really used to having like only like five minutes time or like two minutes time, to talk about something. And it was overwhelming for me. Her amazing energy where she’s like straightforward, really good and speaking really good and speaking in a high energy way where I’m like, well, that was overwhelming for me.

Robin (01:29:13) – I felt a little bit, the the overwhelming. I love the interview I watched. Already twice, even though twice after it came out. because this was amazing. before I watch it like three, four times for editing and stuff like that. so I already mentioned, this was a big one for me because it personally impacted me, even though content wise, I did not learn a lot of new stuff. but personally, it was really, really, really cool for me. let’s see if I can find another example. That was amazing. I mean, okay, I have to mention, like, the first one that I ever did. the story of the first podcast is always amazing because you don’t like, I think. Mr. Beast says it. The first 100 videos you’re doing, you don’t have any clue what you’re doing. And I feel like that is really true because with every like 20 episodes I’m doing, I’m feeling so dumb. What I did like 20 episodes ago, and, and.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18) – I’m.

Robin (01:30:19) – Slowly getting to the point where I’m like, okay, I know a little bit like, I know 2% what it takes to be a good host of a podcast, maybe 2%. I know when we have like 100%, we have like a Joe Rogan, a Lex Fridman, from outside of Bitcoin, inside of Bitcoin, and Peter Mcomie that has has done a lot of interviews, press and I think also really good. Natalie Brunelle is also really good. Like when those are like between 80 and 100%, I think I’m like a 2% of, of, of skill level. And I have to learn a lot more. And that’s why I’m also doing it like all my life. And when we talk about like 300 episodes a year of what in the next like 80 years, a lot of episodes are a lot of really looking forward to my episodes when I’m like 90 years old.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08) – And.

Dani (01:31:09) – That you, like, picked a very precise, like focus to do it with interviews because then like, It keeps it very like, channeled.

Dani (01:31:20) – You have a very, like, focused mindset. And so you can like barrel towards that goal very coherently. For me it’s harder because like for example, technical episodes don’t perform very well because therefore like a very educational. Sweetheart. Thank you. Therefore educational purposes. So it like, it takes time for people to catch on or it’s just a resource for people. The ones that perform the best are when you’re talking about what’s happening at this moment with the controversies of like, what’s happening at the moment. So like any interview with anybody who’s involved in any situation that is unfolding as you’re going is going to be a huge success.

Robin (01:32:08) – And I’m 100%. I love doing the podcast and doing like every day, the podcast, having new people on. It’s it’s something I’m really grateful to have. and I’m wondering why I did not start it earlier now. but yeah, I needed time. Like I went into Bitcoin, I think, when we go into how I grew, like how I came into bitcoin in the Bitcoin community, like in 2023, I started my Twitter account, where I’m like, really? Every day I will publish something I had back then, I think 300 followers or maybe 400 or something like that.

Robin (01:32:50) – Now when it’s 11,000 or something, one year later and, and I’m like, since December, I’m also starting the podcast. I had like 200 followers, on, on YouTube in January. Now I have like over 3000 and it’s, it’s, just overwhelming for me that people are actually deciding to listening to me. It’s, it’s it’s still, like, I cannot, I can’t I just don’t get the point with like people deciding. And also, I don’t know if you look to the YouTube statistics a lot, but you get the metric. How many hours.

Speaker 3 (01:33:26) – In.

Robin (01:33:27) – Total? people inside of your video. and, when I released the last episode of Gary Goodman, it wasn’t like the first four hours. 800 hours were spent in my videos in the first four.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40) – Hours, I.

Robin (01:33:42) – Like a lot a lot of hours spent in the in the videos. And I think the best episodes with Jeff Booth with, beat it on, with with Gary, with other people that like thousands of hours in this video alone, and even, bad episodes get like 500, 400, 700, total watch time hours.

Robin (01:34:03) – And I’m like, I’m feeling so humbled that people give me that time. And that’s why I’m really passionate about making the video as good as I possibly can with the trailer, with the edits, I try to if there’s something weird in the voice of the guest, I’m trying with Adobe Enhance speech with getting the speech a little bit better and enhancing the audio. because if people are willing to invest so much time in me, I should invest like money in my resources to make it as good as I possibly can. And I try to get better with every episode. That’s why I last week just bought a camera to, make it a little bit more, soothing. It’s not as bright. It’s a little bit more dark. I have, like, a LED light there. I have now.

Speaker 3 (01:34:50) – The.

Robin (01:34:51) – Best microphone I could find. The the the the show. from what our Joe Rogan I think almost every big podcast uses. And these are all investments that are make for basically because people are willing to invest time in my podcast.

Robin (01:35:10) – I have to pay back the this trust and this, time that people are paying me forward. So like, I’m, I’m also my soundproofing my sister. I don’t know if you saw the tweet of mine yesterday, the day before. I have egg boxes standing here and, the blanket is coming down here. So my voice is not like a reverb because my room is like a attic. And so the the the the the voice is really bad if I don’t have those things. And, I’m trying to invest more and more into the quality of the content, because when people invest their time, I should invest in, in the quality of the content.

Dani (01:35:53) – And bitcoiners have a tendency to be to reward, hard work, like proof of work is a big thing in the medium. So if if you invest your time into producing a high quality product and this is recognized by the community, then the community will offer a lot of support back. So, I think your success is also a reflection of the fact that your that the community is appreciating what you’re doing, that the that there is an audience for your work, that it is like high quality.

Dani (01:36:28) – So I wouldn’t worry too much about the little technical details at the end. At the end of the day, the reason people are following you is because they respect like the content and the people you’re bringing on board, the effort you’re making. You know, they’re very low time preference, so they’re okay with things taking a little bit longer. If in the end you’re going to deliver something that that’s worth the win.

Robin (01:36:51) – Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s important to note that I’m really just getting started. Like I’m the podcast is not even four months old or is it not four months old? I think it’s now exactly four months old because I started on 28th of November, December, January, February, April. Yeah. Matt and I lost margins. Five months old. Actually, right now, I forgot the match to. To count. yeah. It’s five months old exactly now, and I’m really like, I’m humbled by by by the feedback I got from the Bitcoin community. but I’m just getting started.

Robin (01:37:30) – It’s, it’s it’s fascinating for me that people are like, signing up for channel memberships on YouTube, to pay me monthly. people are giving me money on value for value for founding, and all all those weird stuff for me that I cannot really comprehend. But people are actually paying for a free product that is out there, after the fact. So it’s it’s fascinating to see the Bitcoin community rewarding, as you said, hard work and the proof of work. And I’m doing my best. But, I’m not even a half year in. So like, I’m a, a bitcoin podcast newbie and and I’m trying to to pay my way.

Dani (01:38:08) – I have one last question for you before we go. So it’s similar to what you do. So you at the end of your episodes, you ask your guests to, ask a question for the next guest. So my question for you was like, what question has been the most interesting? Or what question would you wish they asked that they haven’t asked? Something about the questions you ask because I found that really endearing.

Dani (01:38:34) – I like that one.

Robin (01:38:37) – First of all, I stole that from the diary of a CEO. Like, this was not my idea. there was a podcast outside of bitcoin that I really like to listen to. now there’s a little less, but I really loved the listen it last year. and, he just make the same thing that I’m making. He’s making. I just copied it 100%. And I loved it so much that I was like, I have to copy that. I tried to put my own spin on it, but I did not like my own spin on it, so I just copied it. and I also thought it is amazing for the Bitcoin community because it goes back to this blockchain thing where the guests are interconnected to each other, where the guest is pointing with the next question to the next guest, like in the blockchain, they’re pointing to the next blocks. So I, I love that, that it’s soothing. So. Well, and yeah, but I just want to note that, that I’ve just copied that, and I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41) – what.

Robin (01:39:41) – What is the question? what’s the most interesting question? Yeah.

Dani (01:39:47) – that you wish people would ask, but they haven’t, or. Yes. Which question would you like to highlight from that?

Speaker 3 (01:39:53) – From that?

Robin (01:39:55) – I love the, the rudimentary questions like, what is freedom? that came up, or even the outside of Bitcoin. Questions are always like, for example, the question that I liked a lot is like, what is the daily habit that you love and would not live without that one daily habit that you do? there’s also an interesting thing that sparks interesting conversations. Like, basically, I actually like when they are asking questions a little bit outside of Bitcoin because Bitcoin is well covered in, in my, my podcast usually, and

Speaker 3 (01:40:36) – Usually.

Robin (01:40:37) – Like when it’s a Bitcoin question. it’s, it’s covered already before that like a little bit even. So when I see the question obviously I know the question before we get in the interview. so I try to get around that question. So it’s not covered in the podcast, but sometimes it’s hard because the guest gets where the guest gets like, I don’t try to the guide the guests.

Robin (01:41:00) – I just try to be like the get the best side out of the guest as, as possible. and yeah, it’s fascinating for me to see that, more and more questions I get outside of Bitcoin. and then there are some questions, that are really technical. that’s sometimes interesting. I think one question I also want to highlight, that’s why I now started to, like, not reveal who the next guest is to the guest.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30) – Like, I.

Robin (01:41:32) – have, like, asking a question for the next guest without knowing who the next guest is. because, the, it was it was already misused as a as a question. The that, Arsen from from the relay, the social is the social media, leaders from relay. He knew the next guest, and he was like, I was asking for the next, like, why are you bold? And I loved it because they knew each other really good. Like, they had a really friendly thing, going on. They loved it. And it was, he we made a clip about that.

Robin (01:42:12) – but, for me, I that’s why I started not reveal, who the next guest is, to to get it, like, fresh. Because when I reveal who the next guest is, then people think of this person and try to tailor a question to him. And this is not like where it should go. It should, like, be like, completely, completely new. Like, why is, like, what is freedom? What’s your daily habit like, what else was in there? But there’s like, a question that nobody asked till now. nobody asked till now why Bitcoin for some reason.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52) – why why Bitcoin?

Robin (01:42:54) – Never. Nobody ever asked on on the podcast why are you actually in Bitcoin. But it’s it’s fair because I usually cover that in the podcast. and the thing that I like to like I started asking that a lot of my guests, and nobody ever asked that in the, in the, in the, in the end of the in the routine of the question, I started to ask the guests, what are you currently really passionate about besides Bitcoin? because I think Bitcoin has are doing so many great stuff.

Robin (01:43:29) – and we can learn from that as a Bitcoin community, what they are doing outside of Bitcoin. I’m from that. So that’s like to the end. I’m more and more getting discretion in. Not with every guest, but with more and more. And nobody ever asked that because I think it’s an interesting question to think about. Okay. Right now, what are you learning? What? Your audiobooks, your podcasts, what are they about? Because this is changing for me all the time. Like, like one year had a whole different thing that I’m currently right now. Because right now I’m starting a podcast. Obviously, I’m listening a lot to like, what is important for podcast? how do I make, like a brand out of a podcast? How can I scale it? What is personal branding like? Because I have to know all about that to get the Bitcoin message out there. the becoming back to the the earlier things that we said about, the, the best way to orange peel people, the best way for me to get the the bitcoin message out there as if my podcast is really big.

Robin (01:44:32) – Like as long as like I would not care too much about that. My podcast is really big, but that’s the best way for me to get the bitcoin, message out there, and maybe even so big that it’s a little bit outside of of of Bitcoin. That’s why I, I started this also didn’t cover a lot. I started naming the podcast The Bitcoin Path. and then I decided after like 10 or 20 episodes to not give it any name, just name the podcast. Nothing like it’s just Robin Sawyer. It’s like just my name. And I made this decision really, consciously, because I want to talk about anything I’m currently passionate about. I think the next ten years will be about Bitcoin. The next ten years of the podcast will be primarily about Bitcoin. but even if it goes beyond Bitcoin, because at some point, it’s sometimes hard to think about that. But at some point Bitcoin will be boring because everybody will use it. It will be the base layer of our financial system. and it will be like we are talking about the TCP IP protocol.

Robin (01:45:41) – Who cares what the TCP IP. Now everybody uses it. Everybody. When you send like messages on on on on on the phone when you send anything, there is always the TCP IP protocol somewhere connected with it. But nobody has a podcast about it because it’s boring. And Bitcoin will also be boring.

Dani (01:46:05) – I, I actually asked this myself, this question like a similar question. And it comes to that this idea that Bitcoin is just money. So like sometimes I struggle with this idea because my daughter is like, mom, why are you always talking about Bitcoin? Are we going to go see your Bitcoin friends. So I’m like okay what’s going on. But then I bit it is a little bit because it’s a new technology. We’re like redefining what money means. So it’s kind of fair that it’s about Bitcoin. Because I do wonder sometimes like Bitcoin is just like Bitcoin is just the tool that we are going to use to do all kinds of other things. So right now we’re really like focused on the tool, but really like what is the tool allowing us to then go and do.

Dani (01:46:54) – So I love that you’re taking that approach. That’s a great, take on that whole situation.

Robin (01:46:59) – Yeah. I just could not decide a name. And I was like, then let’s not name it at all. Like, my mind about my YouTube, is just Robin saying my thing is also Robin sign. Like you can find it with Rob. It’s, there’s actually when you, Google Robin’s podcast, there’s another Robin’s podcast coming up. It’s called Rob cast. it’s it’s not my current podcast. It was a podcast of my past. It’s in German, and I cannot delete it for some reason.

Dani (01:47:34) – My questions, but I didn’t like kind of there. We still have a minute to to maybe discuss it. Why do you choose to do English instead of, German, for example?

Robin (01:47:44) – And that’s, I get that ask a lot, in the comments. people even say, like, I should do German because for some reason they want to to have it in German, but I don’t care for that.

Robin (01:47:57) – and I, don’t care for that specific reason, because I think we have a lot of great content creators in the German area. We have blockchain, we have sunny degree. We have really like, I think 5 or 6 Bitcoin only podcast in German. I don’t know how it is in Spain, in other languages, but in German we are really great represented. There is no need that everybody, like there’s always a need for more stuff and we can always saturate the market more and that can always be another Bitcoin podcast in that language. And it’s more the more the better. But there is not like, oh, there’s not one we ever have Nico. Yeah I completely forgot about them. He’s he’s Austrian. He’s doing a great job. and, there are so many great Austrian Germans, this content creators that doing only German content, where I’m like, it’s not like there is a hole in the market and there’s no Bitcoin podcast like Nico. Yeah. He invites really cool people. He has an in-person studio.

Robin (01:49:06) – He’s doing extremely professional. He’s now partnering up with, a football team in Austria. He’s like a whole nother level is really good. Blog trainer I love him. He’s on the, Bitcoin stage, also in Prague. like, there are really good people in Germany in German. And there are also a lot, a lot more, in English than in German. But there are, there are really great people in English also. So for me, I got to take this decision freely because I know there are a lot of great Bitcoin podcasts in English. There are a lot of great Bitcoin podcasts in German, so there is no need for me to fill any hole in any market really. I just can find my own space and I. Worked in the company where I primarily, talked, English, with my clients because my client was in France. I have an Indian girlfriend, which, she does not know, German. Like, she understands some German, but she. I cannot really speak German.

Robin (01:50:14) – so I talk with her every day in English because I also don’t know Hindi. even though I’m trying to learn a little bit. But it’s not an easy language for me. so we talk every day in English. I have, like, 50% of my friends, from, like, America, England from wherever. so I talk with them, English and not German, like, even like some of my friends are English and not German. So for me, English, it’s not mother language level, but I can speak it without thinking about it. And I even, went on a kind of an English standard in my private life where when I set up a new system, when I set a new phone, everything is English like. Everything that I set up is is in English. and then I only was like, what what what do I want to do? Because I can speak in German and I can speak in English, that there’s no difference for me in there. And then there are two aspects that are now was were deciding for me.

Robin (01:51:19) – The first aspect is not all Germany’s German. if I speak in the Austrian dialect, some German don’t even understand this. and it’s uncomfortable for me to speak in the High German language, that the high standard of of German. It’s like the, the German that the German speak.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41) – And the German.

Robin (01:51:42) – The Austrian speaks is a little different, even though the basis is the same. I feel more comfortable in English than the high standard of German. And if I have a German speaking podcast, I probably have to speak in the high, high language of German because then, like, Germany doesn’t understand me, the Swiss does not understand. But then it’s just an Austrian podcast and it’s really small. and this was one of the smaller aspects, but the bigger aspect is, I want to talk with people all over the world. I don’t only want to talk with, Austrian friends. And this is the most, important part, because if I have a German, podcast, we are not, there yet with AI translation where we can real time translate it really good.

Robin (01:52:37) – So English, the kind of the middle standard, and when you only talk with German and Austrian, like Germans, Austrian, Swiss, they are in like the Western civilization. They think the same way. Kind of. They have a similar way of living or obviously people are different. But, you get where I’m going like that in a similar region. So I had Indians, I had Africans on, I had, people from America and Australia and Canada, and I had so many different parts of the world already on my podcast that I did not want to miss out. And only 10% right around that number of my podcasts are actually German speaking people that I forced to speak English with me, even though some of them did not like it. but I forced them to do it because I want to have this Bitcoin standard. I might, I might, if I, if I have a great Bitcoin English podcast, I might do a second channel. and either if I translation is good to translate all my podcast episodes in, in, in German with I so people can easily get it because there are some bitcoiners that are not comfortable with hearing English, or just don’t know English that well.

Robin (01:53:56) – And I want to, get them access to my English ones. Or even if I translation is not good, I might just start interviewing some of the Germans again in German for a second channel, but I probably don’t do that. I probably do the AI translation. but it’s it’s a possibility. But right now I’m just focused on the English podcast and doing that. And the biggest reason is for me speaking with the guest, all over the world.

Dani (01:54:24) – Yeah. Your decision process was a little bit different for me. from mine. I think it’s very interesting how you came to that decision. And, because you’re focused in interviewing people and English is like a more universal language that you can use to communicate with different people. I think for me, it’s a little bit different because, with Spanish, it’s a little it’s not like with German there isn’t so much high quality content specifically about Bitcoin in Spanish. There are some like good bitcoin, podcasters and BTC sessions. Just put out a little seminar in Spanish.

Dani (01:55:02) – I was quite, impressed. But I think when it comes to Spanish, there is kind of a hole in the market. and it’s not just for money reasons, it’s more so for educational reasons, like there is a void that isn’t being filled in terms of providing a service to these communities that they can access like some resources and get informed about the tools and the culture and the technology in Spanish, the part that is like hard for me. That is kind of why you picked English, is that it’s very hard to bring people on your podcast to interview them in Spanish, because there isn’t that many Spanish speaking people who are like at that level. That will be like a a Natalie Brunelle in Spanish, you know. So I’ve been thinking of ways of delivering this information to the Ibero-American community. Different like to.

Speaker 3 (01:55:56) – Make it I.

Robin (01:55:57) – Think I translation will be soon really good and I think it will be, consumable and it will be really good, like maybe in a year, maybe in five years.

Robin (01:56:07) – I don’t know what the time span is. I even saw some some bigger podcasts already experimenting with that and offering the English podcast in 2 or 3 other languages on different channels with AI translations. I mean, you have to spend money on that. There are tools. They’re working a lot in you, usually utilizing a lot of processing power. So they are not inexpensive. but I think at some point, it doesn’t matter what language you’re uploading, the user of, let’s say YouTube can just choose, oh, I want to consume that. in my local language, in Spanish. I want to use it in French in Germany and whatever. And YouTube does from the source to every other language. I don’t know if we’re there in ten years, 20 years or five years, or probably not one year. but I think at some point language does not matter that much because I translation and innovation tools are just that good with translating to every language.

Dani (01:57:12) – Yeah. And I think it’s also about speaking the person’s language, like not their actual language, but their language culturally and their language financially.

Dani (01:57:21) – Because I think the reason why it’s easy for you to speak English or German is because between the Americans or the British or the Germans or the Austrians, there’s going to be a huge overlap in terms of the tools that are available, the resources that are available, the points of view are going to be similar, similar life experiences. And that doesn’t translate very well for South America. And South Americans don’t feel like, represented sometimes in those discussions and those experiences. So I think more so than that literal language, the reason why I can’t really fill that gap, it can at a technical level, but it can’t really fill the gap because you need the the person to be communicating in terms of life experiences that those audience members can also relate to. But yeah, it’ll be very interesting to see, like where this whole AI future goes.

Robin (01:58:14) – Yeah, I was I was just talking obviously about the language itself. Like just like the words translated. So like, the same thing that basically the American series are doing with all the different languages where they just have someone speaking over them.

Robin (01:58:32) – so like, I don’t know, the Big Bang Theory. For example, for America, there was a German, German version of that where some actual German person is speaking over that and doing the jokes all the differently and stuff like that. So I think we will get to that kind of a level where I, can do it as good as a human. I can translate it, because I’m also, like, fascinating when I, I switch sometimes with ChatGPT in Austrian dialect. And he’s like, speak with me as you would be someone from this Austrian small region. And I’m like, what? He’s actually texting exactly as an Austrian would do. so I think just adding language level will be, there. Then it will be. Interesting if I can also like translate jokes and stuff like that. Because as you said, a joke in America is different than a joke in India, and it’s different. And a joke in Australia is different than a joke in in Latin America. So that will be interesting to see if they can, have a similar joke that also Latin Americans, see, but I have no clue.

Robin (01:59:50) – Honestly, I just, I just hope that at one point I press release that my English podcast gets to everybody and everybody understands it, but I’m just hopeful.

Dani (02:00:00) – All right. why don’t we close since we didn’t, answer the question, why Bitcoin? Why don’t you? We close with a little statement of why you think people should bitcoin. Why bitcoin?

Robin (02:00:13) – There are two aspects to it there. The first one is the one that people in the West are really concerned about is number grab technology. They want to have more financial gain from it. And yes, you will have this 100%. Bitcoin will rip all other assets apart in the next ten years. It will be not funny. people people will attack Bitcoin because there will be envy of it. People will attack Bitcoin is because they will be envious of bitcoiners and people will be extreme. Bitcoin will be extremely high performing asset over the next ten, maybe even 20 years. because we are just seeing like we have this 3%, adoption rate. And once we hit May maybe like at 5 or 6%, the number can vary depending on what metrics you use.

Robin (02:01:03) – But once we hit this 10%, like this S-curve adoption, it will take maybe ten years from 10% till we hit to to the 80, 90%. So this complete FOMO, this complete, price appreciation level, will hit sooner than most people think and harder than most people think. And even bitcoiners, I think even me. we are not ready for the norm. Price appreciation. That’s why I’m saying so much. Get self-custody. Be ready for it. exchanges will be pulled. try and be be as self-sovereign as you possibly can. And then the second aspect to this is freedom. Grab technology. And this is for everybody. this is for everybody that is concerned about, their government maybe, trying to limit their freedom, in financial transactions. maybe they are concerned about, institutions, trying their, freedom in some sort. This is the part where you should really get passionate about the first part. You can also do with with stock investing, maybe picking some stocks or investing in your own company or something like that.

Robin (02:02:17) – But what you cannot do is the second part, freedom grab technology. it’s it’s something that is freeing so many people, from, from, from different countries where they obviously all of the sudden they can give money to someone. I think a big part was also Canada, the Canadian drugs. This was a, a huge, part of the Bitcoin history for me because, this showed people that crowdfunding only works if you do it with Bitcoin tools, if you do a crowdfunding, so decentralized crowdfunding with fiat tools, they will freeze the assets if they do it with Bitcoin, with privacy in mind, with Self-custody in mind, they cannot do anything from it. And they even froze bank accounts from people that just gave, those Canadian truckers money. And I don’t care what you think about the Canadian truckers on what side you’re politically on, I don’t care, but it should never be an attack on the person that just wants to support financially a political group. they should never be frozen from the assets like this.

Robin (02:03:31) – The the the financial energy of a person is their life’s energy to a certain extent. And you should never, as a political group attack that. But they will attack it. And it’s just a matter of time. The, the you are on the wrong side of government or you in the in the on a country where you are on the wrong side of government. So why not protect yourself from that? If you also get the free number, grab technology like you get both in one thing. and I think this is the, the short, short elevator pitch that I usually give to people, if they’ve asked me why bitcoin. And then there’s usually like 20 things that they think that Bitcoin is not working on coming. And then I’m saying, okay, if you’re not convinced, go verify yourself. Go study yourself. I don’t care if you get Bitcoin. If you don’t get Bitcoin, it benefits me because then the adoption is slower. Then I can buy more. I’m 25. I want to buy a car.

Speaker 3 (02:04:35) – I want to.

Robin (02:04:36) – Buy a lot of bitcoin. I don’t want to be rich now. I want to be rich when I’m 65 years old.

Dani (02:04:42) – Yeah. Give us more time to stack stats. And also there’s this phrase where it’s like people buy bitcoin at the price that they deserve. So if they reject it now and have to buy it later at a higher price, it’s kind of like you brought it upon yourself so that that creates a little friction. But it’s a very hard truth to swallow 100%.

Robin (02:05:02) – And yeah, I said like three years long. I said Bitcoin is a scam. I could pick it up so many bitcoins. I don’t even want to think about how many more bitcoins I would have. To compare to I have now. I’m like always looking at my stack. I’m like, oh shit.

Speaker 3 (02:05:18) – This is I think this is too small.

Robin (02:05:21) – I have not enough bitcoin.

Dani (02:05:23) – Everybody celebrating the halving and I’m over here like, why are you celebrating? Go.

Speaker 3 (02:05:32) – Cancel them.

Robin (02:05:32) – Let’s have it.

Robin (02:05:33) – In ten years.

Dani (02:05:34) – Only people who have too much bitcoin are celebrating the halving.

Speaker 3 (02:05:39) – Exactly.

Dani (02:05:40) – Well, I’m really glad we ended with that question because I love this. I had never heard it put in the in the words of freedom go off technology. I really love that we ended that way. It’s a great, little tagline for the future.

Speaker 3 (02:05:54) – Thank you for.

Robin (02:05:54) – For having me on. It was a pleasure. I don’t know, I think we talked over two hours or something. It was it was really, really cool. Thank you for for hosting me. And thank you for listening so much to to my staff. It was a great honor to be on. And that definitely will have, have to have you on on my show. Also like I would love to to host you definitely.

Dani (02:06:15) – I’d love to come. And I’m really glad that you came on the show and that you shared all like about your life and how you got into Bitcoin. That was all really fun to listen to and that you let us in to what you’ve been doing and how you got here.

Dani (02:06:29) – That’s all really valuable because, I mean, we all take a different path and we can learn from each other’s paths. So I’m really happy to have had you in the show. So thank you for coming.

Speaker 3 (02:06:40) – Thank you Danny.

Dani (02:06:42) – We’ll see you again soon. Maybe in person at a conference?

Robin (02:06:46) – Yes, I hope so.

Dani (02:06:48) – Yeah, I can brag. I didn’t plan on it, but maybe because I had a little girl, I hadn’t had the opportunity to travel that much, but, like, now it’s getting to a stage where I might be have the opportunity to participate in more in-person stuff. So, yeah, I’m looking forward to it. Hopefully.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07) – I think.

Dani (02:07:09) – Bye.

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